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Post by castle88 on Apr 9, 2016 7:19:29 GMT -5
For a variety of reasons I have been less active and have not watched the episodes live. While I disliked the arc in the first 7 episodes, I think I'm in the minority in thinking that the writing this season has been really good (including the first 7). The cases have been interesting and well thought out. They have found a way to get everyone involved. And most importantly for me, they have abandoned using Castle as a buffoon for comic relief. His humor has been more akin to early seasons than to the slapstick of the last two years.
I also find it odd to read the criticisms of TPW and Hawley. They would have been on everyone's short list of writers to replace AWM and TEM. The ratings dive had nothing to do with them. The big ratings drop happened after the first episodes of Season 7. I think it was the result of 6x23 and the awful start to Season 7. And perhaps more importantly, the ratings for almost all shows are way down. This season of Castle has been remarkable for its ratings consistency.
I think it's also important to remember that TPW and Hawley have to work within the constaints they were given. Clearly neither Nathan nor Stana are filming the full 8 days that each episode requires. They may not even be filming 7 of the 8 days. They also seem to have more vacation time. The writers also have to deal with executives at ABC. They also decided to deal with the story mess that they were left from Castle's disappearance.
Has everything been perfect? No. But, is anything ever perfect? The idea that these writers don't understand the characters, or that they don't care about the show, or thT they don't care about the fans is insulting. (Not sure how much of that I've read here as opposed to elsewhere). This is how the entire creative and production team make their living. Believe me, they want everyone to love the show, want the show to continue and work extremely hard to make a show about which they are proud. To suggest otherwise is nonsense.
Will the show be renewed? As always, it will come down to money and contracts. My guess is the ratings have done enough. The show has not dropped at all during the season which is very rare. There is a loyal and consistent fan base. Only ABC, however, knows about profitability and contracts.
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Post by tycho657 on Apr 9, 2016 11:25:01 GMT -5
I think this board has been more positive than other sites. I think many people didn't understand the separation as it didn't seem to make sense. I think they have finally found a way to give the leads the time of they want and still keep the team and theories flow.
We have no idea what constraints are put on the writing team and how creative they have to be to get an episode on the air.
Sent from my SM-N910V using proboards
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Post by 1Lincoln40 on Feb 13, 2017 11:39:42 GMT -5
Hi everyone!
Sorry this is such a loong post....
So I finally completed S8 in December 2016, sort of. Maybe one day I’ll be able to sit down and watch that season again without distractions. Maybe…
I found myself doing 2 things: comparing it to Rizzoli & Isles (never ever compared Castle to another show before because, it was Castle!) and thinking of the lines “it’s not where you start it’s where you finish.” Sadly for me S8 was nowhere near the top, not even close. I don’t have a memory at the best of times so I couldn’t tell you a thing about any of the murders. I also believe that I am in good company in saying I haven’t a clue what LokSat was about except the DC team were killed. At least Bracken had a purpose when he killed, to ensure his power which in his mind was for the greater good.
What’s equally sad for me is that my perception is that no-one at ABC or the showrunners cared as to why the show was still a success with the fans who continued to watch. They had to know that for most of us still watching it was about Rick & Kate TOGETHER as a happily married couple and solving murders. And what happened to those characters I once loved? Kate Beckett the bad-ass, crime solving homicide detective passionate about obtaining justice for the victims.
Jane Rizzoli remained kick-ass & passionate about obtaining justice.
Rick Castle the smart, intelligent, well-read & acknowledged successful novelist. What happened to the Old Haunt?
Korsak bought a bar which saw the team having a drink or something to eat or at times, shock, horror, having fun!
What happened to Kate’s ‘brothers’? A grown up Alexis seemed to be one who just cut her hair and was immediately more intelligent than any other character. And no-one will convince me that Alexis and Hayley were not in a relationship beyond a friendship (unless I need to get out more because that is how women behave as friends these days). And what happened to Martha? The woman who felt that Rick & Kate would need their space as newly-weds. She just shows up and jokes about Rick & Kate and what she interrupted?
And what was Vikram’s purpose other than to keep a wedge between Rick & Kate.
And we finally have some ‘together time’ for Rick & Kate that is totally negated by that pathetic (sorry I just can’t find the right word) separation so that those scenes are meaningless. Their separation should have been from their work, Kate as Captain no longer joining the boys at a crime scene whilst Rick did join them or Rick on his own case. So that like most normal couples, they would see each other first thing in the morning, maybe sneak in a lunch break and then relax together in the evening.
If not for that tacked on 7 years later scene, I doubt I would have bothered trying to get through S8.
B. 
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Post by tycho657 on Feb 13, 2017 12:08:38 GMT -5
Yup it was a mess for sure. I never even bought season 8 on DVD to complete my series DVD's.
This was the season that I only watched one time. Previous seasons I would listen to each episode as I drove the next morning. Then I would watch for a 2nd time with the closed caption on to catch a few extra lines our words I might have missed the first time.
I still consider Hollander's Woods to be the series final.
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Post by nathanfan1 on Feb 13, 2017 12:56:34 GMT -5
Well stated, 1Lincoln40. Season 8 was a disaster on so many levels for the majority of us here. Like Tycho, I went from watching the episodes multiple times to just watching live and never again.I wish with all my heart that it had ended on a higher note.
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Post by geezer2008 on Feb 13, 2017 17:01:23 GMT -5
IMO, It went from being the best show I've ever watched on TV up to S6E23 to being something I did not even recognize anymore. I'm still in shock how it all fell apart. Their legacy is "what the hell happened?  ?" IMO |
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Post by marschg on Feb 14, 2017 8:13:52 GMT -5
Tycho I am with you as far as I am concerned the series ended with Hollander's Woods, season 8 was acdisaster, I do believe being very angry at the end of season 6 they deserved as well as the fans deserved a beautiful wedding
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Post by tycho657 on Feb 14, 2017 9:26:35 GMT -5
Tycho I am with you as far as I am concerned the series ended with Hollander's Woods, season 8 was acdisaster, I do believe being very angry at the end of season 6 they deserved as well as the fans deserved a beautiful wedding Don't get me started on that first wedding.. My husband and I went to a letterman reunion concert that night. Listening to love ballads all evening I was SO ready for this amazing wedding we had waited 6 seasons to witness. I even stayed off twitter and all posts about the episode so I could enjoy every minute. Boy, did I blow not going on twitter. If I would have known what they did I might have not watched and saved myself from the grief. That episode killed my passion for Castle after that. If they had just given us the wedding and then had him disappear after everyone would have been ok with that. It amazed me that Andrew and Terri wrote that mess. It was like they forgot who these characters were? I was surprised at how hurt they were with the reaction of fans? How could they have missed how we would react? |
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Post by nathanfan1 on Feb 14, 2017 12:27:42 GMT -5
You are so right, Tycho. When we were in LA and Andrew sat beside me at lunch, he said that he was afraid the audience would see the wedding as an ending and be done with the show. He said he needed to give them a reason to come back. I can understand that view but, as you said, I really can't believe that he didn't have faith in the Castle fan base after all those years. I believe the ratings would have soared had we gotten that wedding and people would have been so excited to see them in season 7 as a married couple. As it turned out, Marlow's choice did the very thing he wanted to avoid. It killed the love of the show and turned many fans away.
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Post by marschg on Feb 14, 2017 16:00:27 GMT -5
Tycho again, I could not agree with you more the first wedding was a disaster.
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Post by geezer2008 on Feb 15, 2017 10:37:51 GMT -5
You are so right, Tycho. When we were in LA and Andrew sat beside me at lunch, he said that he was afraid the audience would see the wedding as an ending and be done with the show. He said he needed to give them a reason to come back. I can understand that view but, as you said, I really can't believe that he didn't have faith in the Castle fan base after all those years. I believe the ratings would have soared had we gotten that wedding and people would have been so excited to see them in season 7 as a married couple. As it turned out, Marlow's choice did the very thing he wanted to avoid. It killed the love of the show and turned many fans away. Nicely said. I, very much, agree. |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 15, 2017 17:30:51 GMT -5
Cannot, yet, bring myself to watch Season 8 past the Christmas hiatus. Just cannot do it.
The beginning of the end for me was 6 x 23. That seemed to kill something in me for this show. Something I was never quite able to recover.
The saddest part -- Terri & Andrew wrote it, further, thinking it was acceptable. I give that entire episode an "F". I kept looking at my husband and saying, "Is this my beloved Castle?"
That was the first summer I didn't pine away eagerly awaiting the fall premiere. And every episode since was sub-par. The magic was gone.
The worst thing, it could've been prevented. I feel like a broken record, but what the hell were Andrew and Terri thinking?
Them leaving, and the renewal with the change in show runners for Season 8 -- BIGGER mistake. That "high note" Nathan wanted to go out on - sad to say, the high note was before 6 x 23. Because once that aired, it was all downhill.
Not usually a negative nelly, but felt like the wind was let out of my sails. Hope to never be this invested in a TV show again. Because the pain was palpable, and the frustration great. It was even intensified by the fact of meeting Nathan in person, and making so many friends over this show. Yep, a part of my life died with the show. I miss it, and some of the friends I made here whom I no longer "see" on these boards.
Thankful for many epic memories that will live on. Like how I felt watching Always, and the hours into the night at hardly being able to breathe immediately following its airing. Meeting Nathan, Castle Con, and the real live people/friendships I've met/made because of this show. And some of the great times here. Bittersweet. Love those times; love the memories. And missing it all at the same time. Why must so many good things come to an end?
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Post by geezer2008 on Feb 16, 2017 11:13:26 GMT -5
Cannot, yet, bring myself to watch Season 8 past the Christmas hiatus. Just cannot do it. The beginning of the end for me was 6 x 23. That seemed to kill something in me for this show. Something I was never quite able to recover. The saddest part -- Terri & Andrew wrote it, further, thinking it was acceptable. I give that entire episode an "F". I kept looking at my husband and saying, "Is this my beloved Castle?" That was the first summer I didn't pine away eagerly awaiting the fall premiere. And every episode since was sub-par. The magic was gone. The worst thing, it could've been prevented. I feel like a broken record, but what the hell were Andrew and Terri thinking? Them leaving, and the renewal with the change in show runners for Season 8 -- BIGGER mistake. That "high note" Nathan wanted to go out on - sad to say, the high note was before 6 x 23. Because once that aired, it was all downhill. Not usually a negative nelly, but felt like the wind was let out of my sails. Hope to never be this invested in a TV show again. Because the pain was palpable, and the frustration great. It was even intensified by the fact of meeting Nathan in person, and making so many friends over this show. Yep, a part of my life died with the show. I miss it, and some of the friends I made here whom I no longer "see" on these boards. Thankful for many epic memories that will live on. Like how I felt watching Always, and the hours into the night at hardly being able to breathe immediately following its airing. Meeting Nathan, Castle Con, and the real live people/friendships I've met/made because of this show. And some of the great times here. Bittersweet. Love those times; love the memories. And missing it all at the same time. Why must so many good things come to an end? Wonderfully said. It was like 2 different shows, the before 6 x 23 and after. I read something recently that amazed me. People are still writing new fanfiction about Castle. That really blows me away and tells me how much the show affected and touched people. I know that I never tire of reading good stories about the first 6 seasons . I know it broke my heart to see it fall apart like it did and I will never get that involved in a show again. |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 17, 2017 11:54:38 GMT -5
Wow, still writing fanfiction!? Blows me away, too, geez! Agree with you! It was some kind of special!
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Post by ProudTVJunkie on Feb 23, 2017 13:48:46 GMT -5
1Lincoln40 - I agree with you on pretty much everything! I, too, watched both Rizzoli & Isles and Castle from beginning to end and never once compared them until that final season. R&I wasn’t perfect, but they did let their characters grow, and as you said, showed them even having fun outside of work! It showed them as friends and colleagues and it only enhanced the show. For some reason, the powers that be at Castle were always afraid that if they gave the fans exactly what they wanted, we’d grow bored and tune out. Instead, they failed to give fans what they wanted, (no big wedding, no friendship scenes, no talk of starting a family), and lost millions of fans in the process. Some people blame the perceived behind the scenes tension between NF and SK as the cause of the abysmal season 8, but I blame the writing. Look at the rest of the characters: -Martha was a hollow shell of her former self. -Esposito and Ryan, both veteran detectives, started the season by one shooting the other in the butt?!? -Lanie was all but nonexistent as Beckett, her best friend, tanked her marriage. -Alexis was not only smarter than everyone else and had magically learned expert surveillance technology skills, but was parading around like a Victoria Secret super model at a frat party in one episode and her father didn’t seem to even notice, never mind care?!? -Hayley ended up working as Rick or Alexis new partner, and I agree about them setting the groundwork for an Alexis/Hayley relationship, or at least it certainly had that feeling to me. -LokSat was a muddled mess with no purpose other than to break up our favorite couple. It was so boring and convoluted that I didn’t even enjoy Gerald McRaney, one of my favorite actors, as a guest star. Why is it that whenever season 8 is brought up, I can’t help but rant? I don’t write fan fiction, (but there are some incredibly talented people still writing Castle stories, thank goodness), but in my mind, the wedding goes off beautifully in 623. Rick doesn’t disappear, but stumbles upon a case that brings back memories of Hollander’s Woods, which becomes the season 7 story arc that allows us to finally delve deeper into Rick’s past. Kate never becomes a Captain. Castle never goes back to being a P.I. Alexis moves out. And at the end of the season 7 finale we learn that Beckett is pregnant. - That’s the Castle I would have written.
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?" IMO