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Post by ruggedlyhansome on Oct 6, 2015 10:00:44 GMT -5
This is getting too murky for me.
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Post by castle88 on Oct 6, 2015 10:02:59 GMT -5
Oh gosh, guys... I haven't watched yet. CastleFanGran... thank you for your constant hope! I have gone through a myriad of emotions this week and have found myself perplexed at this story line in many ways. The desire to watch last night just was not there, but I am going to hope that I can get the happy Castle feels back again. I'm willing to go through the fire with them, because I am not going to believe that Kate is doing what she's doing because she wants to end her marriage with Castle. They've fought too hard and come too far to let that happen. Kate's risk with her marriage, and her willingness to go this road, must be the only choice she feels she has right now. Maybe. We must remember that we don't know what we would do, if we knew what she knew; if the shoe was on the other foot. And I'm choosing to remember that people are who they are and their choices are not always the best choices in our eyes, but they feel that what they are doing is the best choice for them. Am I grasping at straws? Possibly. My worst fear at this point is that the ratings don't plummet because if they do, I would fear not only not getting a season 9, but ABC could cancel them mid-season. I just am going to keep the faith, and not bail on this. We obviously don't have all the answers, but going to keep the faith for a gratifying pay-off. Life in TV Land is so unpredictable - creators, writers, TPTB, cast & crew variables... I'm going to just wait this out and "stand by my man", so to speak. I may not like this part of the journey, but I'm in it til the end. Just my two cents. Even though I haven't watched yet. lol....  Definitely watch. In many ways it's a good episode. I can only speak for myself, but definitely not bailing. But, at this point I don't think I can justify the 5 hours of sleep after watching live. |
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Post by castle88 on Oct 6, 2015 10:15:58 GMT -5
Going to post the most recent part of a discussion on Alwayswritewithcoffee's tumblr blog. I know Dee's straight forward responses are off putting to some. Nevertheless, I think this is the best explanation I have read about Kate's actions. She is not trying to say that her actions are correct, but give the reason behind them in Kate's mind. Take it for what it's worth. Also it was a response to shutterbug5269 so I hope you are ok with my posting. "God, Beckett hasn’t thrown anything in his face. She told him once that she understood his anger because he went missing for two months and she had no idea where he was. Lanie brought it up tonight and she also wasn’t throwing anything in his face but pointed out that they’ve both made similar decisions. Castle has done something he needed to apologize for. Stomping all over Beckett’s request for space because, in his mind, she belongs with him and needs him is the exact same thing as Beckett shoving him away for his protection. Just like his wife, he’s ignoring her wants and her needs in favor of his own because he thinks he knows what is best for Beckett just as she thinks she’s doing what is best for Castle. But, because people think that he’s right and she’s wrong, Castle is largely forgiven or even seen as some sort of hero because he’s trying to keep them together versus Kate’s stance of how they need to be apart. Except Kate doesn’t want to be separated. She’s doing what she thinks is best to keep her husband alive and have a shot at spending the rest of her life with him. It’s not like she’s casually sitting in some hotel room thinkings about a spa treatment and a hair cut. She’s grieving for her marriage, she accepts the reality of what she has done and that she might not be able to fix it, but, in her mind, Castle being alive and separated from her is better than putting him in an early grave. Does she have the right to make that decision and force it onto him? Maybe not, but she’s operating on the fear of the possibility of loss which is something that Beckett does not handle well. There’s a reason she lived under walls and didn’t let people close for all those years; because loving them meant being susceptible to pain if she lost them. Do you know why she keeps asking for his faith and trust? Not because she wants to hurt him or string him along. But because if she tells him the truth he’s doing to start digging and end up getting himself killed. She can’t confide in him because, as Castle’s just proven by wading in on her cases, he doesn’t really listen to her about boundaries. It’s just not who he is. She touches him now because its almost an afterthought, usually because she can’t help herself or flat out doesn’t realize that it is happening during these moments of high emotion. Beckett also hasn’t asked for Castle to chase after her. She’s didn’t stand by and give the impression that it’s his job to do all the work or that he needs to grovel at her feet. She’s putting in the work to get back to him as best she can. Instead of crucifying her for all these things she hasn’t done why don’t give the story the opportunity to develop so that she might have the chance to get back to him. Castle’s currently under the impression that he can win her back with cuteness and murder, despite Kate telling him that he doesn’t need to do any of it because she’s still in love with him. That impression oh his part certainly isn’t going to last because, like all things in both life and television drama, other situations will come up that give him more information and change his perspective. And as far as this idea that she should have ‘put the case behind her’. She has never done that, and she never will. Not only because its a television show that needs drama to sustain it but because this is her own personal war and right or wrong, Beckett thinks its her job alone to fight it. It’s the same thing as Castle always digging, shoving and pushing to get the full story. That’s who he is, uncovering motivations and mysteries is as much his DNA as getting justice is for Beckett. So don’t demean her for something that her husband is also a victim of because if Richard Castle had to shove his family away for their protection? He’d do it. In fact, he already did. See episode 7x01 and 7x22 where he chose to leave, put himself in danger and possibly never come home to help a friend. No one is mad Castle for that decision as far as I can tell." |
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Post by ruggedlyhansome on Oct 6, 2015 10:20:08 GMT -5
I'm sorry for my negativity. I need to remember that this is A Possibility For Joy. ...slim possibility...but still possibility.  |
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Post by castle88 on Oct 6, 2015 10:27:25 GMT -5
I'm sorry for my negativity. I need to remember that this is A Possibility For Joy. You are entitled to feel how you want. We share all opinions that are respectful of those on the board and those making the show we love. |
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Post by tycho657 on Oct 6, 2015 10:33:35 GMT -5
I have been looking forward to the great fun banter of the early seasons to return for a long time now. I had it all planned out in my mind that after an amazing wedding in 623 we would see this so in love couple start to work together solving murders, the fun would finally be back. Well we know how those plans got blown up and buried so deep they have never come back.
I was in hopes that some of the fun we saw in previous Creasy episodes would be there but I guess without Dara working with him that is gone too.
Everyone connected to this new mystery keeps telling Kate to forget this and go back to her great life. She needed Rick with her when she went to Mr Smith, that was Ricks contact not hers?
I think they are trying to make a new story but they just haven't quite put the pieces together? Will it take us 7 episodes before it makes sense?
Oh and didn't they say that we would get a better explanation about what happened when Castle was gone for the 2 months? All I have heard is a few comparisons between Kate's 2 days and his 2 months being gone. That's not answers?
Ok done rambling for now.
Sent from my SM-N910V using proboards
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 6, 2015 10:40:24 GMT -5
Oh gosh, guys... I haven't watched yet. CastleFanGran... thank you for your constant hope! I have gone through a myriad of emotions this week and have found myself perplexed at this story line in many ways. The desire to watch last night just was not there, but I am going to hope that I can get the happy Castle feels back again. I'm willing to go through the fire with them, because I am not going to believe that Kate is doing what she's doing because she wants to end her marriage with Castle. They've fought too hard and come too far to let that happen. Kate's risk with her marriage, and her willingness to go this road, must be the only choice she feels she has right now. Maybe. We must remember that we don't know what we would do, if we knew what she knew; if the shoe was on the other foot. And I'm choosing to remember that people are who they are and their choices are not always the best choices in our eyes, but they feel that what they are doing is the best choice for them. Am I grasping at straws? Possibly. My worst fear at this point is that the ratings don't plummet because if they do, I would fear not only not getting a season 9, but ABC could cancel them mid-season. I just am going to keep the faith, and not bail on this. We obviously don't have all the answers, but going to keep the faith for a gratifying pay-off. Life in TV Land is so unpredictable - creators, writers, TPTB, cast & crew variables... I'm going to just wait this out and "stand by my man", so to speak. I may not like this part of the journey, but I'm in it til the end. Just my two cents. Even though I haven't watched yet. lol.... Definitely watch. In many ways it's a good episode. I can only speak for myself, but definitely not bailing. But, at this point I don't think I can justify the 5 hours of sleep after watching live. Thanks. I agree regarding the sleep. Since I live in the Eastern time zone, and have to be up very early on Tuesday mornings, the decision to sleep has been made easier. Will not be reading anymore posts on this thread until after I have watched. |
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Post by nathanfan1 on Oct 6, 2015 11:03:48 GMT -5
I haven't watched the episode again yet but I'm sure I will later in the week. Meanwhile, I remembered one more thing I appreciated from the cell scene. I'm glad that Kate took full ownership of this situation when she told Castle it was all on her.
I read the response above from the blog of Alwayswritewithcoffee and I think it's got some good points but I still have a problem with the basic premise of the whole thing. The idea that Kate is doing this to keep Castle from digging in with her, in an effort to keep him safe, is ridiculous. The power and influence that the bad guys have, as seen in XY and XX, leaves no doubt in my mind that they could do anything to Castle or his family in a heartbeat, whether he's investigating or not. The only thing that might truly keep them all safe is for Kate to stop.
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Post by angie1379 on Oct 6, 2015 11:19:27 GMT -5
Okay, here goes nothing. I was pretty underwhelmed last night. I'll start with the petty and work my way to the big issues.
Did both representatives of my profession have to be be portrayed as unethical, unstable, megalomaniacs? One was re-conducting one of the most controversial experiments in history, the effects of which are widely and predictably established; and the other, a dean no less, was having an affair with a student. Can we spell cliche? Rest assured, normal academic word is much more mundane. I'm at least glad they made it clear that Hudson University did not okay the re-enactment of the infamous Stanford prison experiement. No university's research review board would ever approve an experiment that put students in such a potentially dangerous situation today. And I found the motive and actual murder to be weak at best. Too many storylines: a scholarship competition, an angry frat boy, BDSN fetish, affair with a dean, secret prison, military contracts, psychological damage. Jeez! It all just got lost.
Next, I have mixed feelings about Alexis. I like seeing her as a contributing member of the team, but did we really have to bust out the flirty co-ed trope on her second case? And I'm sorry, but standing in a BDSM playroom with my dad and two of his buddies would have been mortifying no matter the circumstance. We get it, Alexis has read Fifty Shades of Grey and isn't a virgin anymore, but that doesn't mean she has to remind her dad of that. I've been married for 12 years and have a son, and that issue is still more taboo than not with my dad. Let's quit establishing Alexis' adulthood exclusively through the lens of sexuality, shall we? Leave that to Brittany, Lindsay, and Miley.
For an episode that was supposed to set the stage for bringing the spark back and reclaiming the fun and banter of the pre-Caskett days, I fear said spark was more like a sputtering birthday candle trying to stay lit during a hurricane. Yes, I'll admit, the jail cell scene captured a little of the anticipation of yore ... but honestly, I can get that anytime I want by rewatching the hand-rubbing scene in "An Embarrassment of B*tches" or any scene in "Cops and Robbers" from season 4. That's not who they are now. I want to see new material, not a pale re-enactment of who they were four years ago. Not to mention, the tension and theory-building was confined to one scene, and it's nothing we haven't enjoyed plenty of times when they were together. The single difference is instead of making out like horny college students while locked in that cell, they actually focused on getting out of it. All things considered, I'd rather have seen what last season's Caskett would have done in there as opposed to season 4/8 Caskett.
And I guess I'm just not convinced of Kate's motives or reasoning. So, is she pushing Castle away so that he is distracted by their breakup and doesn't get involved with her crusade; or is she trying to convince anyone who might become tipped off to her investigation that Castle is a non-issue both for her personally and for the investigation? Castle obviously believes this is an interpersonal issue between them, and even if he trusts that Kate still loves him, he can't get past his conviction that any issue is better solved together. And I can't particularly fault him for that. That is, in fact, what a marriage is. I also don't mind that he is doing his damnedest to remind Kate of that.
So yes, all in all, I feel like I'm stuck in neutral. Given that the next several episodes have already been filmed, there's no changing the trajectory of the show at this point. It's going to play out as it will, and all we can do is watch. I just hope it gets better than last night.
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Post by nathanfan1 on Oct 6, 2015 11:31:21 GMT -5
I always appreciate your observations, Angie. Points well taken. Thanks for sharing!
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Post by castlefan8 on Oct 6, 2015 11:41:22 GMT -5
Well, i did what i said i wouldnt do and i watched it. Sorry i did. I too was depressed after.
I cant watch Castle waffle between despair and giddy and every scene he had with Alexis just had me asking "why couldnt he be doing this with Beckett?". The Dean office scene left me cold, Kate was mean and dismissive. The cell scene left me cold, interrupted conversation - how many eps will we have to endure before they finish afew sentences? The big pic that was released with her arms around him was no big "moment" just a boost up. I thought when i saw it that it might be forward movement, silly me.
Alexis - just no!! What was Lanie talking about? How much does she know? The whole plot is terrible and not getting better. The promos look even worse. Sigh...
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Post by ProudTVJunkie on Oct 6, 2015 12:03:44 GMT -5
angie1379, I loved your thoughts and calling this "a pale re-enactment of who they were four years ago" is spot on. Knowing we'll probably have to watch this trajectory for half a season is really disheartening.
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Post by castle88 on Oct 6, 2015 13:46:42 GMT -5
angie1379@admin That is a really good point. I can get my head around the Kate thinks this will help keep Castle safe even though I think she is making the wrong choice. And, maybe the "I didn't think it would be like this" line by Kate toward the end was her starting to realize that maybe this choice wasn't going to work even though she is not yet ready to give up trying to keep Castle out of it. But, back to your point, if this just leads to a retread of what has already been seen then what is the purpose of the arc from a writing point of view?
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Post by java on Oct 6, 2015 19:40:19 GMT -5
First off a grown man shouldn't be wearing ripped jeans. Oh, wait! I have a pair. Never mind.
What I find frustrating with this show are the lost opportunities. After being jerked around for the season 2 and 3 finales, we get a great 4x23 and 5x01. The season 5 finale was a little angsy but we got the proposal and 6 was looking to be a fabulous run to 6x22 until the disastrous 6x23, 7x01, and 7x02, starting what I call Castle 2.0 with an artificial blue-screen wedding and a new, artificial mythology, "The Disappearance", punted to near the end of the season. Season 8 started with "The Break-Up" (aka "The Dragon Part Deux") and we reboot the show again with Castle 3.0.
As a longtime fan, I have to face the reality that the quirky police procedure turned love story is gone, replaced by a quirky show with a bumbling, overgrown 10 year old on a sugar rush and his married to the job wife. It still kinda works. Tonight's episode had some laughs like Espo and Ryan's mockery of their undercover attempt back in "Kick the Ballistics" (4x04). I think it was mockery? Lanie is still Lanie, protective of her best friend captain even though it doesn't appear she fully agrees with what's going on. Even The Boys are shut out. Alexis? Well, they moved that storyline forward too fast without building the super sleuth daughter background but they did try to prep us with the season 8 poster with father and daughter and "family business". I'm not saying they were effective. Glad to see Martha again and not the new girl. I keep forgetting her name.
For the first part of the show, it was entertaining but eventually unravelled. I cared not for the COTW and I doubted that little 120lb girl could run with enough momentum to impale her jail mate. So whenever the case is unappealing, I look for Caskett but it felt so forced with an uneasy tension from the separation. I won't go into what a farce I think the underlying reasoning is for their separation, we beat that one to death in the 8x02 epilogue, so I'll just say this is just part of the new mythology in Castle 3.0.
This episode didn't have much going for it other than moving the story along. We know Beckett didn't stay with Lanie, Castle is still wifeless and wants her back, Mr White is still alive as we all suspected, and Alexis is drinking $15,000+ fifty year old scotch to my envy. Other than that I have nothing. Perhaps down the road 8x03 will fit into the larger picture but hopefully by midseason.
Great discussion, folks.
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Post by motowncf on Oct 6, 2015 19:58:06 GMT -5
Well, darn. I was hoping to see a more positive reaction to last night's episode. I will probably still try to watch it at some point, although I may wait now until after next week, since the airing of these two episodes was switched. However I get the feeling that won't really make any difference.
We watched Blindspot last night. And I have to say, it's a really good show. If people are leaving this sinking ship, it's quite likely they may switch to the competition, and sink it even faster.
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